Subject: Proposed Connect/Disconnect Working Group Agenda and Goals.

From: alan bartky <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 10:33:25 PDT

Fellow Connect/Disconnect Working Group Members:

It is time to get started on our noble task to resolve connect and disconnect
sequences for Data Link Switching.  This message contains a proposed agenda
and a proposed set of goals for our group.  Please read and comment on ASAP.
We have a lot of work to do in our group and not a lot of time to do it.
Remember that we need your support in order to reach the noble goal
of being able to interoperate SNA and TCP/IP between all of our
companies' products.  So let's get going.

To start the discusion off, here is my proposed agenda and goals for the
group:


Proposed agenda for Connect/Disconnect Working Group of Data Link Switching
(DLSw) Special Interest Group (SIG).

All schedule items indicate the date of completion of the proposed
agenda item.  All deadline dates are a Friday unless otherwise specified.

Date    Item

7/5-9   Agreement on agenda and Working Group Action Items.  Any "ready
        to go" documents should be submitted.  Agreement on goals for 
        document to be submitted/discussed at the next APPN Implementors
        Workshop (AIW).

7/12-16 Initial discussions of RFC 1434.  Questions and Answers between
        parties on differences, advantages and disadvantages between
        techniques.  Formal Submissions/Proposals to be submitted.

7/19-23 Email Discussions of Formal Proposals.  Goal to reach
        consensus on basic technical methods proposed and start of 
        detailed work on working group document for connect/disconnect
        sequences.  Edited Formal Submissions (based on comments) to be
        submitted.

7/26-30 Final discussions on proposals.  Goal to have first draft document
        by Friday.

8/2-6   Discussion/ Comments on first draft of Connect/Disconnect document.
        Technical, Editorial, Content.  New submissions to be additions
        changes to the document.  Goal to have second draft document
        by Friday.

8/9-13  Discussions/Comments on Second Draft Documents.  New submissions 
        at this point should be only to aid in completion or clarification
        of the work in progress.  Goal to have review copy of final Draft 
        by Friday.

8/16-20 Discussions on Final Draft.  Changes to the document should
        be editorial in nature.  Edited final draft ready to go by Friday.

8/23-27 Final Discussions, Document submitted to the AIW.  (Note: This
        is also the week of fall Interop).

8/30-9/3 Initial feedback from the AIW (non connect/disconnect members)
        Answers from Group members to the AIW.  Any discussion within
        working group as needed.  Blatant errors (editing or technical)
        to be corrected by group consensus.  Any final changes to be
        resubmitted to AIW by Friday.  (NOTE:  THIS IS THE TWO WEEK
        FINAL DEADLINE PRIOR TO THE NEXT AIW).

9/6-17  (Two weeks)  Open discussion period, Questions/Answers to rest of
        AIW.  Any proposed changes to the document will be logged and 
        presented in open forum at the AIW.

9/21-23 AIW Meeting, Raleigh NC.


Proposed Goal for Group:

The Goal for the group is to agree upon, and document Connect and Disconnect
methods for interoperation of SNA/LLC, SNA/SDLC and NETBIOS Acess Networks
with TCP/IP Backbone Networks.  It will allow the following connectivity

SNA/LLC  to SNA/LLC
SNA/SDLC to SNA/LLC
SNA/LLC  to SNC/SDLC
SNA/SDLC to SNA/SDLC
NETBIOS  to NETBIOS

NOTE: Generic LLC to LLC is not proposed as a goal.  If it turns out
that it can be easily added, or it it "falls out" as a natural part of
the design, then it will be added.  All four possible SNA combinations are
shown above to illustrate the fact that "any-to-any" SNA connectivity is
the goal.

For SNA Access, the design will allow connectivity for PU1, 2, and 2.1
devices (again if its easy or it falls out, it will be added).

For SNA Access, multiple SAPs will be allowed (other than the default SAP
of 4).  This includes cases where the SAPs are not the same number (e.g.
DSAP = 4, SSAP = 8).

All Connect and Disconnect flows and State machines will be fully documented.
Formal Diagrams, Tables, and example flow diagrams will be used.  Example
flow diagrams will show the entire end-to-end sequence (i.e. both ends and
the middle will be shown).

All work submitted to the group will be considered "public".  Due to the
nature of the group, its' organization, and the nature of the email exploder,
No information can be kept confidential.

All work to be done within the group will be conducted via email using
the Internet.  Phone calls between members should be done only when
absolutely necessary.  Remember this is a public forum, and will work best
when all members can comment, contribute and work together.


Looks like I will personally be on the road this week at one of our
joint technology partners.  I will either check in with my mail or have it
faxed to me.

I look forward to working with you all.  I beleive we have the most
interesting task of all of the working groups, and our collected
work will do great things for our industry.

Alan K. Bartky
Manager of Technology
Sync Research Inc.
[email-masked]
(714)588-2070

P.S.  If you are on the list.  Please send email to the group with the
following information:

Your Name
Your Company
Your Email Address
Your Phone Number
Your Status as an Active or Auditing Member.

Note: I expect "active" members to be active!

---

From: "Bernard Brady" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 6 Jul 93 14:01:10 EDT

All,

>The Goal for the group is to agree upon, and document Connect and
>Disconnect methods for interoperation of SNA/LLC, SNA/SDLC and NETBIOS
>Acess Networks with TCP/IP Backbone Networks.  It will allow the
>following connectivity
>
> SNA/LLC  to SNA/LLC
> SNA/SDLC to SNA/LLC
 >SNA/LLC  to SNC/SDLC
 >SNA/SDLC to SNA/SDLC
>  NETBIOS  to NETBIOS

I also think  that  SNA/QLLC  and derivatives of it  should be
considered on this list.

> SNA/LLC  to SNA/QLLC
> SNA/SDLC to SNA/QLLC

Bernie Brady

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 07 Jul 93 06:25:09 PDT

>Your Name: Wayne Clark
>Your Company: cisco Systems
>Your Email Address: [email-masked]
>Your Phone Number: 415/688-4627
>Your Status as an Active or Auditing Member: Active

---

From: "Bernard Brady" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 93 09:58:26 EDT

Your Name: Bernie Brady
Your Company: BBN Communications
Your Email Address: [email-masked]
Your Phone Number:(617) 873-5629
Your Status as an Active or Auditing Member: Active

---

From: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 08 Jul 93 09:27:13 PDT

I like the schedule Alan has put together.  It is a very ambitious 
    schedule but let's try to make it.

    Prior to the DLSw SIG meeting in June, I did done some analysis of the
    DLSw flows that the current RFC describes.  I laid them out in a MacDraw
    document and gave a copy to Alan Bartky for initial review (and airplane
    reading :-) at the conclusion of the AIW.  I also did a MacDraw version
    of the DLSw finite state machine.  These documents represent my 
    interpretation of the RFC and are therefore subject to error.

    I will give the PostScript version of these files to Alan over the
    weekend or early next week to place into the ibmstandards
    repository.  For the sake of email discussion, I also intend to do
    stick-man versions of the flows (but not the FSM).  Last of all, I
    intend to provide the flows for cisco's STUN since it has some of
    the properties that I think are desireable for the
    Connect/Disconnect working group and will provide something to throw
    darts at.

    So, here's what I intend to give to Alan either this weekend or early
    next week (all in PostScript form):
	(1) a series of flow diagrams for RFC 1434
	(2) a more complete version of the FSM for RFC 1434
	(3) a series of flow diagrams for STUN.

    Also, in email in this mailgroup, I will present both of the above
    flow diagrams.

    My initial comments (and maybe something to think about over the weekend)
    are:
	(1) the current DLSw plays too active a role in the station-to-station
	    exchange:
	    (a) by not passing DLC events at Connect and Disconnect time
		end-to-end between the stations, you get:
		 (i) RNR at Connect time,
		(ii) a rather disorderly take-down sequence that is very
		    tightly dependent upon local LLC2 events.
	    (b) making NT 2.1 support very complex:
		 (i) with the current design, XID3 must be performed between
		     the switch and the end stations, not between end stations
	(2) the current DLSw is too loosely coupled with its DLC.

    Some comments:
       The RNR in (1.a.i) causes an Alert to be sent to NetView each time the
       switch-to-switch link comes up (if NCP is set up to do so).  I 
       know ... cisco used to do the same thing.  Our product that RNR'd the
       FEP was on the market for 1 1/2 yrs. before we hit it.  I guess the
       6611 hasn't hit it yet :-).

       The Disconnect sequence in (1.a.ii) will work for an ABM DLC but not
       for an NRM DLC.

       The lack of end station-to-end station Connection in (1.b.i) results in
       a requirement to put all of the XID3 FSMs (FSM_XID3_T2P1_NODE, 
       FSM_XID3_NEG_PROTOCOL, FSM_XID3_PRI_PROTOCOL, and FSM_XID3_SEC_PROTOCOL)
       into the switch.

       The loose coupling mentioned in (2) makes the end station-to-end station
       operations impossible.

    Thanks for listening.  Look for the postings next week.

Wayne